If anyone were in any doubt that the BBC Have Your Say forum is being used by right-wing extremists like the BNP to push their views, today’s question about Binyam Mohamed should soon clear them up:
Send him home!!!!
[RulaBritannia], Bradford, United Kingdom
and
Yet again the system making me think its time to give the BNP a closer look.
Oh dear, York
and
DEPORT HIM!!!!
[cosmicKoalaK], London
or
Mr Binyam Mohamed should be sent back to Ethiopia ASAP.
Captain Mubbers, Britain out of EU!!
The list goes on. The problem is that the highest rated comments only need about 180 odd votes to rise to the top. Finding 180 people to log in and vote is not hard for any determined organisation. In fact, part of me wants to start a Facebook group for that very purpose.
The BBC must do something about this. It cannot be platform for the BNP and other extremists. I would recommend a Slashdot style comments system, with the key ability to reply directly to other people’s posts and rate them based on more than just “I agree”.
14 Comments
I have never voted for or been a member of any far right organisation – the BNP or any other. Get your facts straight! I object to being threatened by militant Islamists! Just because people object to this freeloading ex heroin addict sponging off the taxpayers of this country doesn’t mean we’re nazis!!!
Whatever your feelings about the guy’s behaviour, he applied for asylum and was granted it. You can argue all you like about how asylum procedures are too lenient but the fact is we accepted him and grant him the same basic rights, like the right to a fair trial and not to be tortured, as anyone else.
There is no reliable evidence that this guy was ever a threat. In the end he was released without charge, and any intel they got is worthless anyway because it was from torture. A person will say anything they think will save them when being tortured.
He has never threatened you or admitted to planning any kind of attack, except when under torture. On the other hand, you have made your feelings of animosity pretty clear, and under no duress.
Maybe if you could get past the Daily Mail headlines and wipe the foam off your mouth for a moment, you might consider that you should really be more upset with the government and MI5. Do you really want them colluding in torture in your name? Don’t you think there should be some due process or respect for the guy’s humanity?
Those are the bigger issues here. Unfortunately most people just seem to fixate on the guy’s ethnicity. It worries me when people see someone with brown skin and start shouting “go home” while totally ignoring the fact that collusion in torture makes those involved just as bad or even worse than any terrorist.
It’s as if you just can’t get past the colour of his skin to even consider other issues, which is pretty much the definition of racism.
How dare you accuse me of colour prejudice?!!! My son in law is Indian and love him dearly, he is a hard working wonderful man and a good husband to my daughter. People who are colour prejudiced are the worst kind of scum! I merely detest the fact that he is trying to get as much as he can from the British taxpayer! If you had been tortured by a country would you want to go live there? The man will be of no benefit to this country whatsoever, he will just take. I agree I have foam coming out of my mouth about this. Step back from your “everyone who is white, working and British is evil” standpoint for a moment, get past the headlines in The Guardian and ask yourself – why isn’t he suing the US and Morocco? Because this country is run by bleeding heart liberals like yourself and he knows it. We are sleepwalking into Sharia law and being ruled by Islam and as a mother and a grandmother it terrifies me. Did you see the Wilders protests outside the Houses of Parliament? The placards read “Freedom go to Hell” “Islam will rule the world” “Europe your 911 is on its way” “Infidels will beheaded” etc. That didn’t scare you? The truth is I am scared of Islamic extremism in this country – not the colour of anyone’s skin, and the government must wake up to this threat or the BNP WILL get into power. Every one of those placards was 1000 votes for them. I don’t want them in power but I want the government to stop pussy footing around the issue and realise that there are a lot of Muslims in this country who are a real threat. I don’t know where you live Mojo but I live in Bradford and in Bradford I deal, on a day to day basis, with hatred against any non Muslims (of whatever colour) by young men with “Soldier of Allah” on their tee shirts, we have “Jihad” scrawled on billboards and glaring at us.
I have enjoyed our debate – oh and by the way I am not “ignorant” and I don’t read The Daily Mail – I take The Express!!!!
Good luck and God help us all
Actually I believe moves to sue the US government are underway, not just by him but by others they tortured.
You should really make more of an effort to find out about these things before ranting about them. For example, Mr. Mohamed was working as a cleaner and studying electronic engineering while in the UK. He was not simply leeching off the state and was clearly trying to improve himself and his lot in life. He also claims he was trying to break his drugs habit, which you can debate if you like but let’s be honest – neither of us know him personally and neither of us is in any position to judge that claim.
Your argument is totally non-nonsensical. You ask why he isn’t suing the US and then say it’s the fault of “bleeding heart liberals”. Surely the liberal stance is that the US is responsible and should be sued. Why would a liberal be against suing them?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m as much against extremism as anyone else, and I have direct experience of the Islamic version from my own family. I reject the idea that we are sleepwalking into an Islamic state though. The 2001 census lists the number of Muslims as 2.7% of the population. I doubt that has increased very much, but we shall see in 2011. They are certainly not overwhelming the non-Muslim population.
I am not scared of Islamic extremists either. They are a very tiny minority and mostly seem to be totally inept anyway. Look at it another way: you are 1,000,000x more likely to die in a car accident than be killed by a terrorist. The problem is the media over-reporting that sort of thing while making no mention of the dozens of people killed on the roads every day, so people like you become fearful of Muslims.
You said there are “a lot of Muslims in this country who are a real threat”. On what do you base that assertion? I have news for you: there are far fewer dangerous Islamic extremists than there are dangerous/drunk/incompetent drivers on the road. Which should you be more scared of?
I note you haven’t mentioned the Wilders protests!! I’m glad, however, that you are against Islamic extremism. I am against extremism of any nature, Islamic, Christian, Jewish, whatever. As my Muslim friend said to me “When a white lad and a Muslim lass can walk down the street in Bradford hand in hand and it is no ones business but their own – THEN we’ll have peace”.
I am a Briton first and a Christian second, unless you can put your country before your religion you are not a true citizen and you have to admit that some of the things the Muslims do (i.e. imprisioning a teacher for calling a teddy Mohammed, killing a nun because of the Danish cartoons, etc) is bizarre. I am terrified of this country being turned into a fundamentalist Islamic state – paranoid or not its what living in Bradford at the moment gets you. I still stand by what I said about Binyan Mohammed, he is a crook (false papers), junkie and he WAS on benefits. I am amazed he managed to travel the world on what he had but he probably applied for, and got, a government grant!
Lastly, the US is our oldest ally. If they turned against us God (or Allah) help us. I like my life as it is, I don’t want to be either bombed into the ground by the US or by Al Queda/Taliban, we are living in dangerous times my friend. I don’t agree with your views but I would fight to the death for your right to speak them. Would this be the case if the Wilders protesters or their ilk were in charge?
What you say about being a “true citizen” worries me. Patriotism is a very dangerous thing. I support my country because I agree with most of it’s values. When it does something like this (torture) I don’t support it. I’m not religious but I obviously have strong feelings about certain things, and I would never put my country before my core beliefs and sense or morality.
If the BNP did get elected, would you put aside your Christian moral values and accept their rules? I would hope not.
As for the Wilders protests, I don’t think a small minority of idiots is representative of even 5% of Muslims. When anti-capitalists smashed up some London banks or when animal cruelty protesters send death threats to scientists you don’t assume that they are representative of the majority of white or working class or Christian people. Their actions are high profile and somewhat frightening, but they are a small minority on the fringes of society.
You still seem to think there is a realistic chance of them being in charge one day. Ask yourself this: how many Muslim extremists are there in parliament, and how many more MPs would they need to have any influence? Maybe you think a few chumps who couldn’t even make a suicide car bomb work properly* will somehow defeat the entire British Army and force a take-over?
Our “special relationship” with the US seems to be “we bend over and take it up the arse” if you ask me. They only entered the 2nd World War when forced to, not when we asked for help and it looked like we might very well be conquered by the Nazis. We helped them develop the atomic bomb on the understanding that they would share the technology, but then once the war ended they decided not to let us have it after all. We had to spend huge sums of money developing our own at a time when we could ill afford it.
America has never been a particularly good friend to us.
* OK, to be fair one of them did get the suicide bit right.
Let’s get this straight (I’m enjoying our debate!!!) I do NOT condone torture, neither do any of my fellow “anti Binyam” posters. My anger is that this chap was arrested, on a false passport, on the Pakistan/Afghan border and flown to Gitmo. He once lived here (and he was on Soc Sec btw I checked). Why are we flying him home on a private jet, putting him up somewhere, funding his case and no doubt compensating him when (1) He hates us and everything we stand for and wants to blow up you, me, my kids and my grandkids, (2) we didn’t even torture him!!! I stand by my original posting – he knows Morocco and the US will tell him to do one so he is chancing his arm over here – we are the world’s mugs!
Okay, we reason we are doing these things for him is twofold. Firstly we gave him the legal right to live here. You can debate the wisdom of that all you like, but the bottom line is that he was given it. As such, he is entitled to all the basic rights that anyone legally entitled to be here is.
For example, the right to shelter means we must provide him with some accommodation. I support that right as I don’t think that we should allow anyone who wants shelter to have to live on the streets, because we are compassionate human beings. Obviously they must be encouraged and ultimately required to seek work and support themselves, but Binyam was doing just that before his rendition. It’s true that he was claiming some benefits, but he also did have a job and was studying to better himself, so I don’t think it’s entirely fair to characterise him as someone who just mooches off the state.
I should also add that from what I understand of his case, I probably would not have supported granting him the right to live here. Of course, neither of us has all the facts that the people making that decision did, so I can’t say for certain.
Anyway, beyond that he is now being legally represented by interested third parties. I imagine they will want remuneration should they win his case. Any legal aid he receives is fine by mean, as I believe that being able to seek justice is a right and not a privilege of those who can afford it. If MI5 and/or the government did collude in his torture, then it seems right that he should be compensated as not only is that the law of the land but it is also the moral thing to do. We simply do not tolerate torturing people. Our laws state that, and we punish those who break them. People may even go to prison over this, which I find acceptable given the seriousness of the situation.
Some people argue that we are at war and that anything which saves British lives is justified. I disagree. There are principals we should never sacrifice, behaviour we should never engage in. It was different when back in the 2nd World War we did terrible things to prevent the very real threat of being defeated by our enemies, but even then there were limits. This conflict has, in comparison, a very small number of casualties. I reject the argument that it’s worth it even if it saves just one life, because if that were true we would ban cars (thousands of deaths per year).
You are right, this is an interesting debate.
If you’re still in doubt, read the HYS thread on Nick Griffin today.
Take a look at the response I got:
http://blog.world3.net/2009/11/response-from-the-bbc-re-bnp-hijacking-of-have-your-say/
Western ideas which ,many of you up hold ,will not stop someone, letting of a dirty atomic bomb,since x ray machines contain cobolt, very nasty radioative element, as well as smoke alarms,americuim,
As well as the above, by using DNA recombinative viris, you could kill billions, THIS IS THE TRUE NATURE OF 4TH LEVEL WARFARE/THIS IS WELL UNDERSTOOD BY THOUSE IN THE KNOW. THE NEXT 100 YEARS IS TO BE HELL ON EARTH.
IT WILL MAKE THE SECOND WORLD WAR LOOK ,LIKE A MINER FART
Have I just inadvertently come across a dialogue hogged by Mojo and Rule Britannia? However,my rambling two pennyworth is: Communism is the result suppression; Extremism is the result of arrogance that one is right in their perverted belief:Loyalty to your country of choice must come first, or why choose it? The result of unlimited Labour Government immigration policy (nothing to do with racism, all to with liberal minded nutters) is that we are now faced with a burgeoning population that will, eventually, become unsuportable in the most densly populated country in Europe; been on our overcrowded roads lately, especially at peak periods? Heard of struggling Councils left to accommodate and educate the excessive immigration? Heard that Birmingham has a population of 50% immigrants-so far!heard that more and more ethnic Londoners are moving out to allow this cosmopoligan capital to eventually lose all resemplance of its culture (apart from buildings and what’s in museums). I’ll not be in the wreckage, neither in Heaven- Just dead-horray!Sorry for the grandchildren though.
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> Loyalty to your country of choice must come first, or why choose it?
I didn’t choose it, I was born here. I have to judge it on it’s merits because any other criteria are irrational.
> Heard that Birmingham has a population of 50% immigrants
Depends on your definition of “immigrant”. Presumably you are including people who were born in the UK but are non-white. That would seem to imply that non-white people cannot be British even if born here, which is pretty much the definition of racism.
So what is your opinion of me? I am white, father Asian from Tanzania and mother Caucasian “native” English. I was born in Wakefield. Can I be British or am I an immigrant? On what criteria do you make your judgement?